The MH17 investigation and Buk 312

July 21, 2014 — 37 Comments

In the days since the downing of MH17 a lot of people have jumped to conclusions prematurely. Evidence provided by the Ukrainian Security Service, combined with the results of social media investigations, suggests the Ukrainian authorities have been less than honest in key disclosures of information to date.

Firstly, condolences to those who have lost their loved ones on MH17. This is a terrible tragedy.

A lot of the media and governments have jumped to conclusions about the responsibility for the downing of the Boeing 777. It is rather distasteful when this happens, particularly as in many cases the primary interest of those making their minds up before a proper investigation is propagandistic. Key principles of propaganda are to try to get your side of the story in first, to repeat lies and half-truths until the they are accepted as truth and to demonize an enemy in order to encourage hatred.

It is to be hoped that the investigation proper will be professionally run and unbiased. Given the geopolitical implications, it is difficult to be very optimistic about that though, having the examples of the Lockerbie investigation and the recent UN/OPCW investigation into Ghouta in mind.

We hope those most concerned, the victims and their families, will learn the truth and also see a measure of justice.

Anyway, having spent some time examining the evidence which has so far come to light, it seems necessary to make a small contribution, to hopefully get a bit closer to the truth and away from the current atmosphere – which most resembles a witch-hunt.

The US has claimed in a statement on the Kiev Embassy web site that: At the time that flight MH17 dropped out of contact, we detected a surface-to-air missile (SAM) launch from a separatist-controlled area in southeastern Ukraine. We believe this missile was an SA-11.

Intercepts of separatist communications posted on YouTube by the Ukrainian government indicate the separatists were in possession of a SA-11 system as early as Monday July 14th. In the intercepts, the separatists made repeated references to having and repositioning Buk (SA-11) systems.

Social media postings on Thursday show an SA-11 system traveling through the separatist-controlled towns of Torez and Snizhne, near the crash site and assessed location of the SAM launch. From this location, the SA-11 has the range and altitude capability to have shot down flight MH17.

The Security Services of Ukraine (SBU) have provided photos and video to the media which they claim show SA-11 buk systems returning to Russia after having brought the plane down.

The photo extract below, showing a buk, has surfaced, (from where noone is sure) and has been geolocated to the town of Torez (a town close to the MH17 crash site which has seen conflict between some of the locals and members of Oleg Laschko‘s Battalion of neo-Nazis.)

Buk3c

This photo and a video clip issued by the SBU are being used to suggest that the downing of the MH17 must have been by the “separatists” who then returned the missile system to Russia.

Now, it is too early to determine with certainty who fired the missile and who bears legal responsibility for the tragedy. But it is interesting to note that the below photo, provided to Ukrainian media by the SBU, also shows a buk on a trailer. In this photo we can see the serial number of the buk which is 312.

0_10dbee_b2c60b07_orig

Update 24/07/2014 Following this story being picked up by RT, attributed to “bloggers,” the SBU have now removed the image from their web site – here is a screenshot: <a href=”https://humanrightsinvestigations.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/image001.png”&gt;image001

There are a number of sub-plots to this story, including the fact that the Ukrainian Prosecutor-General says that Ukraine has not lost any “buks” to the rebels and, of course, the question of why, if they had, the Ukrainians didn’t close their air space to civilian traffic.

But something particularly interesting is that rather than coming from Russia as Ukraine is claiming, buk number 312 appears to be a Ukrainian buk. The evidence for that is in the video below, uploaded 5th March of this year, where we can see a number of Ukrainian buks all lined up in a place called Horlivka (or Gorlovka). The third buk in the line is number 312.

So, it appears that at least one of the buks, which the SBU claim belongs to Russia, is actually Ukrainian.

According to information provided by the Russians, the Ukrainians had 27 Buk MI complexes of the 156th AA missile regiment in the disaster area on 17th of July.

It is essential that the Ukrainians provide a full inventory of all their Buk M1s and precise movements of each of these vehicles – rather than producing pictures of their own vehicles which they hold out as belonging to the rebels – and they should do that immediately.

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It would be much appreciated if readers could make a contribution to the cause using the donate button above.

(updated 21/07, 24/07 with SBU screenshot)

37 responses to The MH17 investigation and Buk 312

  1. 

    Perhaps a bit off topic, From Janes:
    “A convoy of Buk-M1 mobile surface-to-air missile systems was also photographed leaving the barracks of the 156th Anti-Aircraft Regiment on the northern outskirts of Donetsk on 15 April, heading into the countryside.”

    http://www.janes.com/article/36783/ukrainian-internal-security-units-lead-response-to-pro-russian-paramilitaries

  2. 

    I am getting a little dizzy with the great froth of counter claims, one from a side perhaps over scrupulously honest (which is great) and the other side of which is made up of career criminals, pathological liars and frank violent psychopaths. Frankly I don’t get it. But then I am old and used to the idea that normal functioning intelligences can quickly assess the above scenario and decide who to believe. I’d expect no less from a normal intelligence seven year old. The media wars must go on I guess, all potential theaters of combat, and all that. But beyond the bizarre pretenses of the animated screen, why the hell are otherwise brilliant people worrying this thing to death? Entertaining the psychopaths?

    Putins approach (I sense the wise man Laveroff in the wings) of keep it simple seems appropriate. Where the hell are the experts that routinely show up at air crashes to produce the lengthy, definitive reports that are so important in maintaining air safety (fantastically successful business that makes jet liner travel just about the safest imaginable – if you stay away from Ukraine as has been demonstrated twice in the last 13 years)? Keep yelling on that one point. We are not trying to reach bright people. Think of it as a sort of courtroom drama. Use the intransigence of the enemy against him, Akido style. Everyone else without assigned tasks re the flight really should stop this intellectual Onanism, and get back to the dirty nitty gritty of fighting to protect the vulnerable.

    And BTW, I remain dead serious about the need to start a close support air wing of armed ultralights. Bye, bye artillery attacks. Bye bye, exposed armor. Even bye bye, the Uksters close air support with ultras diving with MPADs at low level attacks. With a swarm of them virtually any target is vulnerable, including AA. Please give it a try, for the children’s sake. Suddenly all your small people become an asset. My military experience is in the rural civil war of VN, and the similarities are striking with this liberation struggle. Just think about it.

    There, now I feel better.

    herb

  3. 

    Reblogged this on Augmented Ether and commented:
    Unanswered questions about missing BUK systems in the fascist Ukrainian army.

  4. 
    Charles Wood July 21, 2014 at 04:05

    I’m somewhat dubious about the US claims of monitoring the rocket launch in Ukraine. I recall the same was claimed about the Ghouta missiles but when dissected came up as either entirely made-up or at best a rehash of sigint monitoring of a CW unit carrying out a strategic scale drill some months earlier.

    I’ll also point out that everyone is assuming the aircraft was shot down. That won’t be determined until a proper investigation has taken place. Other options available to investigators are mechanical failure, internal fuel-tank explosiion, and terrorist bomb.

    In the last case, if the aircraft had crashed over say Poland it would have been the #1 theory.

    I’m not dismissing the shoot-down theory. I’m simply saying it’s one of many options that need to be carefully investigated.

    For reference, TWA-800 is a classic case where hundreds of people ‘saw’ it being shot down with a missile, including credible and professional witnesses. It was assumed a US Navy ship had shot it down. The investigation however showed it was an internal fuel explosion and what the witnesses saw was completely explained by the forensic data.

    In MH17 I hope NTSB will be involved as country of manufacture authority. I’ve never failed to be impressed by their throughness and objectivity.

  5. 

    As Christopher Yates of the International Aviation Board said, the path over the area in the Ukraine was known to be no-flight zone.

  6. 

    There are numerous copies of a video showing a Buk launcher with 3 missiles being transported by road on a low loader. The recent copies claim it is heading towards Russia, None of them say where the video was taken. The earliest copy I have come across is from 3 days ago and the LiveJournal blog entry claimed the video was taken from 95 Horkoho Street, Krasnoarmiis’k, Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine. Google maps show a dual carriageway road, consistent with that on the picture. When oriented with the map, the vehicle is moving north-west further into Ukraine, that is away from Russia. Unfortunately there is no street view to confirm this. An enterprising person should go there to check.

  7. 

    Ukrainian government forces maneuver antiaircraft missile launchers Buk as they are transported north-west from Slavyansk, eastern Ukraine Friday, July 4, 2014. (AP Photo/Dmitry Lovetsky)

    http://shar.es/NVC4A

  8. 

    Another shot of this BUK, apologies if it’s already been posted. Freeze frame at each BUK. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj-VZB0ZdEA&channel=06242Gorlovka

  9. 

    Here http://goo.gl/g46JA5 number 321 same Buk as second in a row on originally posted video (0:35)

  10. 

    Another video of that BUK 312 and the truck from March:

    http://vk.com/video246185435_168140448

    The number plate (at 1:25) of the truck belongs to Dnipropetrowsk which is controlled by the warlord Kolomoiski:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20140721230826/http://nomer.pp.ua/auto/AE4483HE

    Another CIA false flag operation like in Kiev(nazi snipers in the hotel) and Odessa(agent provocateurs with red armbands collaborating with the police) is the most likely scenario. I think the most effective way to expose this is to analyze the “evidence” that was fabricated by SBU and CIA.

    The US was involved in such terrorist acts in the past:
    “Declassified CIA and FBI records posted today on the Web by the National Security Archive at George Washington University identify Cuban exile Luis Posada Carriles, who is apparently in Florida seeking asylum, as a former CIA agent and as one of the “engineer[s]” of the 1976 terrorist bombing of Cubana Airlines flight 455 that killed 73 passengers.”

    http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB153/

    Operation Northwoods:
    “faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner”

    http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

  11. 

    Kiev pro-fascist propaganda over braked all possible limits and now can be recognized as a complete madness

  12. 

    Hmm, how can I know that the picture allegedly “provided to Ukrainian media by the SBU”, where the number 312 is clearly visible, isn’t actually made up? I coudn’t find this image, with 312 clearly readable, in any ukrainian newspaper. Could you guys give me some links to justify your claims?

  13. 

    Can you post a link where the image “provided to Ukrainian media by the SBU” is actually used by the said media? Otherwise the whole argument has a very weak spot…

  14. 

    I have another film of “Buk” #312, being transported through a traffic police checkpoint on Mar 17. This is, I’m relieved to say, clearly inside junta-held territory, and I have explained this in detail, in the post. I was afraid I might find it had been filmed inside the Novorossiyan enclaves, in which case it could only be explained as having somehow been smuggled into Novorssiya by the Russian military, which would be damning indeed, but a fragment of conversation with the driver, in which the traffic police ask him to “swear by the nation,” reassured me that we were in junta land. The post is here.

    • 

      Yes, as yet there isn’t a single verified image of a Buk in rebel hands. This is one of the images published by the Ukrainian Security Service to prove Russian involvement and it turns out to be a Ukrainian buk.

      • 

        Yes, and this is detailed video inspection of it. The whole crowd of traffic policemen crawled round it taking video with their smartphones. I recommend looking at all four of the video fragments that Ekaterina Alexandrovna posted on her Vk-com page. The one with the piece of conversation is really the only evidence that we’re in junta-held territory, which I didn’t at first realise, because the site of the videos is only 21 km north of Donetsk. But someone who knows the environment better would probably have said at once, obviously they are junta traffic police, the Novorossiyans don’t have traffic police checkpoints like that.

  15. 

    You forgot to mention that Horlivka (correct spelling) where you say the Buk came from is held by pro-Russian separatists! And not by government forces.

    • 

      Hi Neil,
      Thanks for the spelling correction. The video was taken back in March. The town of Horlivka/Gorlovka wasn’t taken over by pro-Russian separatists until April – see Wikipedia

      • 

        “The town of Horlivka/Gorlovka wasn’t taken over by pro-Russian separatists until April” and is is still in rebel hands so they could easily have fired the missile that downed Flight MH17 although your article puts the blame on Ukrainian forces.

        Your blog purports to tell the truth based on evidence, independent and rigorous investigation of human rights abuses but it is somewhat biased against the Ukrainians.

      • 

        Hi Neil, there is no way of being certain who shot the MH17 down at present. If the governments concerned released all the data at their disposal it probably would be, but they haven’t done so. The data which has been released is obviously partial and. as shown here, in significant aspects incorrect. There is, as yet, no verified evidence the rebels even possessed a working buk missile system, but if any is produced, you can be sure it will be covered on this blog.

  16. 

    could you please be more specific about the source of second photo? where it came from? there is no such photo on SBU website, at least not on the link that you provided.

  17. 

    I present deep condolences of to all relatives of victims, in connection with destruction MH17.

    Analytical conclusions from «Representation of the Independent World Analytical Department of the Earth»

    « For anyone in the world it is no secret that the United States used false information in all matters relating to their interests, as well deliberately injected anti-Russian hysteria in the world around the Ukrainian crisis, in order to meet its geopolitical ambitions. Their goal is historically rooted – the removal of all the forces that prevent them from establishing their anti-human world order.
    EU governments have to pretend not to notice fraud and stretched “blankets” to “ugly face” of lies, hostility, greed and meanness intentions United States – where, in spite of the evidence of what is happening, Obama did not even blush when talking about democratic values. All this orgy of madness greedy lust comes to vile and inhuman destruction operations Malaysian Boeing in a conspiracy with the United States intelligence agencies and the Kiev junta, the Nazi, the Bandera wing that now no one doubts.
    Or anyone doubts that Poroshenko and his gang would not dare even to cough, not to mention the fact that to go on such a crime, without the approval of the United States ?!
    Our analytical center makes clear conclusion that this foul murder passengers Boeing Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 – deliberately planned TO, monstrous and inhuman action, which is confirmed by the available information about the negotiations with the pilots controllers as Boeing and military aircraft with the pilots involved for destruction of the airliner, which perfectly understand what is happening in the sky of Ukraine on that fateful day. In particular, based on classified material conversation with the dispatcher, was on duty on that fateful day of July 18, 2014, Anne Petrenko, 87, born with extreme nationalist ideology S.Bandery.
    The benefit of the ruling circles of the United States of a crime with the Malaysian passenger plane multifaceted and so obvious as to leave no doubt as to their involvement in the crime. Let us mention some basic positions “for”:
    – No responsibility in any case;
    – To cover the blood of their puppets Kiev junta;
    – If successful concealment of the reasons and the fact of attack passenger Boeing, the ability to manipulate events in the widest range of information processing world opinion to their advantage;
    – The fact of the accident, it is with Malaysian Airlines plane, seriously undermines the commercial rating of airlines in the global aviation market, where the Malaysian flag carrier looks solid, is gaining momentum and obscures the interests of the United States in this field;
    – Maintenance of the escalation of violence in the Ukraine before irrevocable exacerbation of national differences in Western, Central and South-eastern regions. United States does not bother financing and abetting the Nazis in the Ukraine, once convict the world community in Nuremberg;
    One can only hope that the world will be freed from the illusions of American “democracy”, hypocritical, mean-spirited and hostile policy, even in respect of its NATO partners and come to understand the need for joint efforts in the fight against the real threats to the existence of humanity on planet Earth.
    You can’t, having the ability to think, this – a unique gift of human-wise, over the centuries to walk around, stepping on the same “rake”, which, as we know many in the barn each of us, and only improve ways of killing their own kind.
    This despicable action was made as a result of failure, another operation on the destruction of the aircraft of the President of the Russian Federation Mr. Putin, which was prepared in anticipation of the span, along the route, which is close to the Malaysian passenger overboard MH17.
    About this could not know all the forces involved observing the United States in the Black Sea, liaise with terrestrial services the United States and Ukrainian traffic services on the territory of Ukraine in the area arranged by their disaster.
    There is information about the impending action to destroy, involved in this crime participants and witnesses of the number of ground traffic control service and Air Force pilots of Ukraine, which now look useless.
    This is a mean political and economic sabotage against the state, Malaysia and Russia, organized in cahoots with Poroshenko and his junta, special services, commissioned by the State Department.

    We do not have nothing to do with any government agencies on the one hand – the helper conflict in Ukraine.
    Representation of the Independent World Analytical Department of the Earth»

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